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TOM WHEELER:

Welcome to the Econews Report. I'm your host this week, Tom Wheeler, Executive Director of EPIC, the Environmental Protection Information Center. And joining me is my friend and colleague, Melodie Meyer. Hey, Mel. And Josefina Barrantes. Hey, Josefina. And EPIC's newest board member, Alex Leumer. Hey, Alex.

All right, so we are going to be talking about a new bill in the California legislature that EPIC is sponsoring, and that is Assembly Bill 2494, or AB2494, as I'm sure we're gonna call it throughout this show. And that is going to change the management directives of state-owned forest lands. These demonstration state forests, there are, I think, about 12 of them across the state, and it would update the management directives to be better in line with state policies about conservation, biodiversity protection, and so on. So we'll get into that.

But first, let's get to know the demonstration state forest system. So Melodie, I said that there is approximately 12 demonstration state forests, and there's one that might be more near and dear to our listeners' hearts, located in Mendocino County, the Jackson Demonstration State Forest. Can you take us through what are these demonstration forests, why people should care about them?

MEYER:

Yeah so these forests -- and there's there's 14 of them -- these are 85,000 acres of land across the state. And they were primarily set up to demonstrate to private timberland owners how to do commercial logging. And this law was put in place in the 1940s. So if we think about what we understand about forest management today versus then, there's a big gap. The forests were also public lands. So in the existing statute, the forests are meant to demonstrate what's called maximum sustained production. But it also mandates that you give some, so a secondary consideration, to things like recreation, wildlife, watershed.

And so for decades now, the public has grown to love these forests, like Jackson Demonstration State Forest, because they are great places to recreate. They're also great places to be able to camp at an affordable price. And they are nearby communities that often don't have access to forest lands like this. And so over the years, folks have noticed what's going on in these forests is CAL FIRE is managing them at a pretty intense rate. So doing things like clear cuts, group selection harvest, putting in new logging roads. And so when the public is able to actually see what this type of forestry looks like, obviously, that's not going to comport with how they view forest as providing outdoor access or wildlife habitat. And so these forests are a unique place where CAL FIRE can demonstrate forestry techniques and does research projects. But at the same time, the public is able to be directly interacting with this kind of forestry side of things.

And so EPIC has been involved because our membership cares so much about these forests and wants to see them managed in a healthy way.

WHEELER:

All right, so the Jackson Demonstration State Forest, as you mentioned, purchased by the state of California in 1947, and the needs for public lands in 1947 are different than they are here now, almost 80 years later in 2026. The demand for maximum sustained production of timber products is a bit antiquated. So just to reiterate, the forest are being currently managed primarily, the primary management objective is private timber operations on public lands. These are in, that just kind of seems weird and antiquated. It seems out of date with our modern demands from public lands, which as you say, have a variety of resource values that we are dependent on. So how did you, or how did EPIC come to start to care about these? What were the impetus for us as an organization to get involved?

MEYER:

We have membership in Mendocino County who live very close to these forests, and there were a few timber harvest plans around 2019, 2020 that were proposed by CAL FIRE that would have had some pretty significant impacts to mountain biking trails. They were also set to remove very large trees over or at 60-inch diameter breast height, and so this caused a lot of community concern, and sort of compounding over the years, too, was this lack of tribal consultation, lack of tribal involvement on management of the forest, and so this all sort of bubbled up into community protest, asking CAL FIRE to do a better job of managing these public forests, and this has also been ongoing with things like the creation of the Jackson Advisory Group, which is a community advisory group that oversees management activities on the forest, and so this has caused an ongoing effort to push CAL FIRE to either revise their management plan of the forest, or to just do a better job of putting out timber harvest plans that don't unnecessarily harm the forest, and so what would often happen is CAL FIRE points directly to the statute that says, well, sorry, our hands are tied because we have to demonstrate this commercial, industrial-style logging, and so when Assemblymember Chris Rogers is elected, or when he's doing town halls during his campaign, he's hearing a lot about this from constituents directly, asking him to take some sort of action, and so that resulted in Assemblymember Chris Rogers coming to EPIC and saying, I see this as a problem, I see this as an issue, let's think about a solution to be able to give CAL FIRE more flexibility and more focus on modern forestry values and management practices.

WHEELER:

All right, so this brings us to the introduction of a new bill, Assembly Bill 2494, which was introduced by Assemblymember Rogers and is sponsored in the Senate by Senator Mike McGuire. So both of the legislators of the North Coast are involved in this. Also among the Assembly sponsors are Damon Connolly, Assemblymember Connolly, Assemblymember Connolly for folks who are paying attention to local politics, is also the likely future state senator for the North Coast for the area that includes the Jackson Demonstration State Forest. He is running to replace Senator Mike McGuire, who is being termed out.

So into the future, it seems that we have an aligned Assembly and Senate interest in seeing some sort of a solution, at least for the Jackson Demonstration State Forest, which is exciting. So AB2494, give me the nuts and bolts. What is going on in this legislation? What is the primary management objective that is being forwarded here?

MEYER:

So the legislation at its heart is redefining what management is. So as we've already pointed out, management was previously prioritizing maximum sustained production. The bill would redefine management to prioritize biodiversity conservation and wildfire resilience while supporting all of these other goals that CAL FIRE has had in their purview for some time now but hasn't been able to focus on. And so when we were drafting this bill, it was also really important to maintain the ability for CAL FIRE to do research. So that's a component of this as well. And to be able to demonstrate timber harvesting that is consistent with biodiversity conservation and wildfire resilience.

The bill also provides some stability for CAL FIRE in its funding by allowing them to draw from the Timber Regulation and Forest Restoration Fund. Turfer. Turfer. Instead of just relying on their timber harvest revenue that goes currently into the Forest Resources Improvement Fund. And so by allowing them to draw from this different funding stream, one that's much larger, it's based off of the Timber Product Assessment Tax, gives them more flexibility and less incentive to put out timber harvest plans that are high grading and targeting these large trees.

WHEELER:

Right. So at one point the Cal Fire was needing to manage the forest in such a way that they could derive enough timber profit in order to pay all the staff and all of the expenses of managing the state forest system. Many of these state forests do not have active timber programs. And so certain forests like the Jackson were being managed more heavily than others in order to generate enough revenue to say pay for the management of the Ellen Pickett forest in Trinity County. So now the legislation would continue to allow for timber receipts to go back towards forest management and also opens a new pot of funds, ordinary tax dollars that come from purchasing timber products to go back to forest management. So it adds a degree of resiliency to the, the budget for Cal Fire to do good forest management.

I think that this is an important point to dwell on a little bit here because a lot of the time, the things that we want to see done in forest management aren't things that are capable of generating enough revenue to pay for themselves. So if we look at doing forest fire resiliency work, if we're trying to safeguard our forests, a lot of that work is going to require pre commercial thinning. So going into a forested area and removing small diameter trees that are the most likely to burn and die in a fire. And that is work that is hard to pay for. It's often requires grant funding or some other sort of subsidy to get it done here. Now we have a clear form of subsidy to get this work done.

I want to do a little bit of myth busting as well. I think that we've talked a little bit about this, but Melodie is commercial timber harvesting opportunities. Are they closed on demonstration for us as a consequence of this bill?

MEYER:

No, they're not. And so we've made it very explicit in the bill that timber harvesting is a tool that can be good for forest management. And so we recognize in the legislation that timber harvesting that is consistent with this new definition of management is permissible and encouraged in order to get our forest to a healthier place. Like you said, there's lots of parts of the forest that are in need of more management, in need of thinning wildfire resiliency efforts.

WHEELER:

So, and we have a lot of good examples here on the North Coast of other forests that are managed in a similar way. If we look at the Arcata community forest, one of the coolest, best forests that I know of, right. They allow for commercial timber extraction and that commercial timber extraction often then betters the condition of the forest so that trees are able to put on more biomass quicker so that we hasten the development of old growth characteristics or that they can pay for decommissioning of old forest roads that might be bleeding sediment into salmon bearing streams. All sorts of good work can be done while using commercial timber harvest as a management tool. And so I think that I would like to just emphasize that commercial timber management or commercial timber harvest is a tool that can be employed to further biodiversity, to further carbon sequestration. It's just how we employ that tool that matters.

So it does not remove the ability to, to have a timber profit. It just makes it so that timber profit isn't the primary management objective of these forests. So, Mel, research is also something that I know is important to demonstration for us. So folks here at Cal Poly Humboldt have ongoing research projects on demonstration state forest lands. It's often easier for a researcher to work with the state of California to arrange to do some sort of a research project than it is for them to work with a private industrial forest landowner like Green Diamond or Sierra Pacific Industries to, to do research. So, so these are often hubs for science. You are listening to the Econews report. So we're talking about legislation in Sacramento, in particular, AB 2494, a bill that would redefine state management objectives for state owned demonstration forests. Can you talk about the historic role of research on demonstration forests and how AB 2494 might affect research?

MEYER:

Yeah, so these forests, like you said, are good areas to be able to do long-term research projects on Jackson, specifically the Casper Watershed Creek studies have shown a lot of good information on the way that different types of silviculture impact waterways. What is the, what can we expect in terms of sediment impacts? And so this type of research is really valuable and I think a lot of people recognize that and the bill is aiming to sort of codify that purpose in state forests. I think it's unfortunately secondary in the current formulation of the statute. Research isn't really called out as a, as a specific purpose or a specific, I guess I would say as something that should be at the forefront of demonstration. And so with this bill, we are trying to make sure that that purpose continues and that it's, it's even amplified to demonstrate types of research that are very much needed, including research on how to make forests more fire resilient, how traditional ecological knowledge can be applied to improve the health of forests and how forestry can also be used as a tool to implement climate change resilience efforts.

WHEELER:

Yeah, right. These are our public lands. So I think that we are rightful in trying to demand that the public interest be served by the, by public lands and researches and the furthering of knowledge and how we can help force adapt to a changing climate that that's all a wonderful use of public lands as well. Josefina, I'm going to bring you into the conversation now. So part of the inspiration for this legislation also comes from the state's efforts to try to conserve 30% of state, of the state by the year 2030, the 30 by 30 movement. Can you tell us a little bit more about 30 by 30 and how demonstration for us could fit into this equation? Yeah.

BARRANTES:

Absolutely. So another really cool part about this bill actually is that once we remove the mandate to commercially log on demonstration forests, these forests, these state forests, these state lands will then count towards California's goal to conserve 30% of land in coastal waters by the year 2030. And 30 by 30 isn't just some made up number that we decided one day. Scientists came to this number because they realized it was the least amount of land in coastal waters that we could conserve in order to stave off some of the worst effects of the climate crisis, which is real. And we absolutely need to mitigate the effects of the climate crisis. And so this bill will be adding 85,000 acres of land towards our goal. We are only 26.1% towards our goal of 30 by 30. So we still have 3.9 million acres to go on the land side, which is a lot to achieve in less than four years. So.

WHEELER:

Yeah, three, 3.9% might not sound like a lot, but when you are thinking about that, that probably equates to hundreds of thousands of acres of land, 3.9 million to be exact. Oh, okay. There you go. 3.9 million acres of land. And so trying to move 3.9 million acres of land into a more conserved status is going to be really dang hard. And so 85,000 acres is, is a nice chunk. It's nowhere near 3.9 million acres, but it is a significant contribution towards that ultimate goal.

BARRANTES:

had certainly not nothing and we also do want to reiterate that these are state forests and this is a state goal so we think that the state should just align with their own climate and conservation goals that they have set for themselves and better manage these forests.

WHEELER:

And at least when we're talking about the Jackson Demonstration State Forest, we're talking about a forest type that's capable of putting on more carbon than any other forest type on the planet. The Jackson is prodigious. You are able to get a ton of carbon if you were to manage differently. Alex, I'd like to bring you into the conversation. What's going on?

LEUMER:

I was just going to kind of drill in on this one piece about like how we're transitioning state lands to reflect the state's goals. As Melodie said, the statute was created back in 1947. There was a lot of laws on the books back then that I'm sure we're all, or most of us are happy are still not on the books because California's values have evolved and changed in the 21st century. And a lot of them are now being reflected in what we're trying to do with 2494.

So we have, as Sophia just mentioned, we have goals around protecting biodiversity and climate resilience with the 30 by 30 program. We also have goals around tribal co-management in the state resources agency actually just said an acreage target of acres they'd like to see co-managed hand-in-hand with the state's tribes. We have a whole outdoor access program at the resources agency that's really trying to get more people outside, especially underserved communities outside. And so all, and actually for the first time ever, we have natural working lands carbon targets that they are resources for to set through its scoping plan. So all these things have come about in recent years. And so we're not just focused on extractive industries. And if anything, I think a lot of folks are realizing that it's important that we decouple the state and really our funding from extractive industries. I think this is also a big reason that the county of Mendocino included this in its legislative platform and have more recently supported the bill because they want to be sure that the county is also benefiting from the forest restoration and improving the scope of jobs. So it's not just be tied to timber extraction, but also the restoration economy. And for us, that's going to help the broader community, even outside the forest limits, a lot of folks are going to be benefiting from that. So it was great to see really only leading on this. And they had a resolution. I think it was passed unanimously back in 2021. They've been asking for this for a long time. Senator Rogers really heard them and made this a priority this year. And like you said, it's been great to see both Sarah Connolly and Senator McGuire sign on as coauthors and support him on this effort. But yeah, I just wanted to give a nod to Minne County and their leadership.

WHEELER:

Yeah, and thank you to our friends on the Mendocino County Board of Supervisors. In particular, Ted Williams has been a real big champion for trying to improve the management of the Jackson Demonstration State for us. So thank you, Ted. Okay, so AB 2494 is working its way through the California legislature. Alex, I hear that it recently passed the Assembly Natural Resources Committee. Can you kind of tell us about the process? Like that old, what was that cartoon that I'm just a bill? Can you give us the schoolhouse rock schoolhouse rock? There you go. Yeah, right. I can give us a schoolhouse rock understanding of like, what's next for this bill?

LEUMER:

Yeah, and I will say Schoolhouse Rocks, I think, is a pretty accurate description of how the legislative process works. When I first started in this work, that was what I was directed to, to learn the process. But yeah, so it's starting in its house of origin, so it's in the assembly because that's where Senator Rogers is, you know, starting his own package. It went through its first and only policy committee, so it was only assigned to the Natural Resources Committee, made it out of there on a party-line vote, which was basically what we expected, but was really nice to see so many of the members supporting it. It now will go to the Appropriations Committee, which in theory kind of looks at the fiscal implications of bills. That will probably be another month or so before we get results from the Appropriations Committee, and if it passes out of that, it will then go to the assembly floor. All members of the assembly will vote on it there, and then if it passes with more than 50% of the votes, it'll go over to the Senate and have the same process there. It'll go to the Senate Natural Resources and Water Committee for appropriations, and then the Senate floor before going to the governor's desk for signature.

WHEELER:

All right. And this is not the first time that there was a bill that has attempted to make its way through the California legislature. Our good friend, Wes Chesbrough, former state Senator, former state assembly member from the North coast here. He sponsored a bill in the aughts that would have done something substantially similar for updating management directives and made it all the way to the governor's desk, but then governor Schwarzenegger vetoed the bill. So hopefully we can finally get this update on, on how state public land should be managed and listeners. If you feel like doing something in support of getting better state land management, there is a way for you to help Josefina tell us about how we are asking people to take action. Yes.

BARRANTES:

So the EPIC website actually has a petition that folks can sign as individuals to express support to the legislature for this bill. And if you go to your computer and type in tinyurl.com forward slash forced bill, it'll take you to our petition and you can sign it and share it with your friends as much as possible so that we can show them how much everybody agrees that they should vote for our bill and pass it through committee.

WHEELER:

You can also go to our website wildcalifornia.org and look under Action Alerts for that. All right, so we have AB249 for it. This is not the only bill that Epic is watching right now in Sacramento. Alex, I know that you have some other bills that you are currently watching as a Sacramento environmental lawyer. Tell us about some other things that you are excited about in Sacramento.

LEUMER:

Yeah, happy to. It's definitely an interesting year. A few that I've been tracking are all kind of in the same place as AB 2494. They're all in the Appropriations Committee, so we will know the fate of them come mid-May. But there's actually two beneficial fire bills. So Governor Newsom did an executive order last fall, really trying to get more beneficial, good fire on the ground, realizing this is both an important tool for fire risk reduction, forest health, and cultural resources for tribes and benefiting biodiversity. But executive orders are only good through the life of the governor.

So Senator Rogers quickly jumped in and introduced AB 1699, which is aiming to codify a number of elements of the executive order, just to kind of reduce barriers to doing beneficial fire. And as a complementary bill, Senator Connolly has AB 1891, which seeks to help ensure that there's ongoing funding for doing beneficial fire and really building capacity. Importantly, that'll have a carve-out that's directed specifically to tribal practitioners. And these are being sponsored by Karuk for 1891. The Karuk Tribe is proud to sponsor that one, and they really believe that building capacity and ensuring there's funding for that is going to be key to seeing our state meet the acreage goals of the beneficial fire that we need to get on the ground. And the Pacific Forest Trust is sponsoring AB 1699 by Senator Rogers.

Additionally, there is another bill that the Karuk tribe is sponsoring in partnership with the Shingle Springs Band of Miwok Indians, and that's AB 2218 by Assemblymember Colra. That just made it out of the Water, Parks, and Wildlife and Environmental Safety and Toxics Committees just yesterday, actually, and that will be heading to approps. But that really seeks to both acknowledge the really inequitable foundation of our water system here in California. Senior water rights were established prior to 1914 when tribal people were not even considered citizens of the state, and so they had no seat at the table. So the bill seeks to both acknowledge that foundation of the water system in California and empower and direct state agencies to take that into account when they're trying to figure out new policies and funding opportunities and really try and bring tribes more to the table to help guide our water policies and funding opportunities.

So all these are really, I think, exciting bills. It's great to see tribes like the Karuk really leading in legislation and sponsoring bills. It's been, I think, a big year for a number of other kind of tribally led efforts around formal apologies and religious freedom that we're seeing move at the same time. So I'm excited to see where those go, and I hope to make it out of the Appropriations Committee.

WHEELER:

This is an exciting time. I, I will say that this is kind of the first time in a long time that Epic has been so intimately involved with the bill as a bill sponsor for AB 2, 4, 9, 4. It has really been an eyeopening experience. I think for all of us in the way that Sacramento works in both good and bad ways, right? I've been really impressed by assembly member Rogers and his dedication in his way that he's going out of his way to listen to his tribal nations in, in his district and outside of his district. So it's been, it's been a fun experience for us. And I think that this is our, some sense, our first rodeo. So it's as, as the executive director of Epic, it's been fun for me to like see our growth as an organization and to know that we're going to come back and hit it all harder next year as well. All right. I was having a, we are just about out of time, but I want to plug that action alert again, so ...

BARRANTES:

Yes, so to sign our petition to support our state demonstration forest bill, you can go to tinyurl.com forward slash forest bill.

WHEELER:

Okay. And I will say that we have had some really fascinating conversations with folks from across the spectrum, from people employed by the timber industry to folks who are self-described Earth Firsters. And we would love to continue to have conversations with people about how we can improve forest management. So if you ever want to talk about this, feel free to email me, Tom at wild California.org. I will sit down with anyone and hear you out. So, so reach out to me. I, I, I'm a sucker for conversation.

All right. Well, unfortunately we are out of time, but I want to thank my guest Melodie Meyer, Josefina Berantes and Alex Loomer. Once again, thank you friends for, for joining the show.

MEYER:

It was fun. Thanks, Tom.

WHEELER:

Join us again next week on this time and channel for more environmental news from the north coast of California.