First, is there a word for the furious ambivalence I’m feeling, trying to nudge the Emerald Triangle’s weed industry toward some rudimentary level of functional regulation of its environmental impacts - while regular old California industrial agriculture makes the Central Valley so toxic that the frogs in the ag sump - er, National Wildlife Refuge - just over the mountains in Williams are right up there in the race for Most Deformed Population? Gah. Scott Greacon

“I always try to remind folks of the distinction between the environmental harms that are occurring now from the rapid and exponential expansion of activity and operations in the cannabis agriculture sector, and the kinds of things that went on with the timber industry even in the not so distant past. I remind folks that compared with the loss of ancient redwood forest ecosystem (i.e. old growth forest) what is happening now is different, and not as extreme in terms of real landscape change. For instance, the global environmental crime that was the Hurwitz regime at PALCO, with the loss of 70,000 acres of old growth redwood in the space of 20+ years, is really quite impossible to match at this point in time. We just don’t have the rare ecosystems to lose, they were already devastated. How many folks are growing cannabis on land that was clearcut and cattle burned before the hippies ended up with it? Lots. Those who are involved with clearing land for cannabis agriculture are rarely if ever clearing old growth forest (old oaks and madrones can pay a high price these days, and they are old and hard to replace trees), and the extent of the forest clearing is still clearly far reduced from the hey day of the timber industry. With that said, it is important to recognize that ecosystem recovery from the heavy logging and ranching is at risk from the unplanned and unregulated and completely anarchic and exponential expansion in cannabis agriculture, and combine that with the maze of road systems and the water use that goes with the economic activity that is growing cannabis and we have an intense motor for degradation. But it is also a motor for recovery when done with the landscape in mind. Using three acres of 40 for economic activity has the potential to be very compatible with forest recovery on private lands. But if those three acres are becoming ten acres that are dependent on thoughtless water withdrawals and a high intensity use of pesticides, that is a different story.” Gary graham Hughes


http://www.kcet.org/news/redefine/rewild/amphibians-1/central-valley-wildlife-refuges-are-deformed-frog-hotspots.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

What a commenter described as “its wrong to destroy the environment unless [you] get a permit than its totally cool!”

third section questioning the paradigm Does marijuana do as much damage to the grows as logging? Are most growers this damaging? 

Currently, 22,000 acres a year are logged California’s national forests. If you had a scale and put the damage to the environment from that on one side and the damage from marijuana gardens grown on public lands how would they compare? 

How pristine is this Forest Service land?

2009-2012 marijuana production doubled

The 5,266 plant grow (see Part 1 of this series here for photos and description) required ____volunteers, —-helicopters, etc to return the forested area to some semblance of its natural state.

 

 

 

 

 

Fewer than 250 Pacific Fishers 7 dead in the last ? years.

Robert Martin Microbiologist with a lab in Oakland said that 8 to 10% of marijuana is contaminated with pesticides.  Ingesting pesticides when smoking a real possibility.

Huffman says as much as 40% of economy Humboldts? may be marijuana.

 

This is a tragedy on our public lands.  This hasn’t been granted permission. 
I get the question a lot What are the impacts of weed vs the impacts of wine but we don’t have the data.
The environmental impact of ag is a huge subject.
It is essential to focus on actual harms of the weed industry in terms of   Don’t people over there you look at what you are doing.  i think the comparison that is most useful is that in the wine industry they have generally managed to expercate ther salmon and are on their way to losing them entirely but we haven’t yet. But the dominant model do put our fish at risk.
It is not enough to say that big ag industrial ag has big impact.  How to make sure that what we are doing here doesn’t cost us what we have left. That arguement to me has always seemed grossly misplaced.  When the pig farmer says to you that I don’t need to be concerned about my con centrated farming waste because look at what the cattle farmer is doing that doesn’t make sense.
how much worse the wine industry You think pot is bad look at a corn field.  What they are really arguing is is something like the system doesn’t really work. Even though we have ag regs there are still frogs being poisoned.  So don’t regulate me bro.
There is this idea that regulation can nver work.  But no one ever tries to make the argument the world with out rules ever works to make those things not happening.  Because it doesn’t work. Wer’e failing to protect our species right now.
Refuse to deal with government regulation ever and still maintain these species.  If you are going to restrain some of the worst of the impacts, you have to have some sort of regulation.  Going out and walking these places using a dog with a harness and a camera.  train them to look for humans train them to look for camps.  If what we are really concerned about is the places that matter the most for fish. lots of these backcountry areas on public lands. maybe we really need to look at how citizens do this.  if law enforcement is so pigheadedly focused on making busts maybe we need to do it-us.
What we are seeing from this past year that ad hoc anarcic wateruse ends up creating a terrible situation not even for just fish but for us.  There is something not sustainable here.  Many of us see it.This reminds me of the Rebublicans in the house right now. We live in a complicated world. It is hard to make things work.  
There are a lot of questions. Who are we talking about?  Some of the busts we are dealing with people who have lived here forever who has had time to learn the needs of the 
The regulations need to come from our collective expression of self government.  This is why it is so essential that we actually legalize it.   What I want is regulation and in order to get regulation I need legalization.  A clear eyed look at regulation means we are going to need a surprising amount of enforcement at least in the near future. In different places we are going to need three different kids of enforcement.  Trespass grows not susceptible to carrot.  Not another options than stick.  This means much harder to understand who is doing them why and how.
Grows are outside the bright line of acceptable behavior.  We’ve got a lot of people who are way over the acceptable line. Part of creating a legal system that is not compliant and cracking down on those guys effectively.  What percentage do you take out to take out to make people color inside the line
How do you police behavior at least nomimally playing by the rules.  We’ve got to have some kind of testing and inspection program. There are certainly ways to make sure to make sure best management practices are followed. 
The endless upstream paddle against ignorance. Depending on the audience just cause we have problems feeding operation we’re against you running 40 cows on  everyone really understands there are problems of scale.  Having one dog is okay but 40 dogs is a problem. There are huge cultural issues too. The only way to get through is for the weed side of that fence to lay aside the disquise and take up full citizenship. Matt cohen  People who stick their necks out early often get nailed. That doesn’t make them wrong.  Yet as a community we need to step up and assert our interest in having this as part of oureconomy our culture our identity but also our willingness to be respoonsible.  If we don’t do that her define what it means to do this right An industry that meats the needs of fish that doesnt’ produce with toxins in it. if we don’t draw the bright line, then the folks that are writin the initieative for the 2016 ballet aren’t going to be able to do it for us.
I don’t see anybody from Humboldt’s weed industry and this is what it looks like.  What I see is a lot of people talking around the idea that they prefer the no regulation present to taking a risk
Why would we want not big?
what is a mechanism that is constitutional/
I think a real problem is thatfolks have gotten self selected we are in aplace  We’ve gotten to a place where a high proportion has really strongly anti governement views weve lived in ways that has reinforced that for a long time. It is asking a lot of people to turn around.  We ve got to tgo easy.  What is see is the agencies trying to go slowly but we ve got to stop pretendign that it (the firsh get enough water, is all going to work itself out magically.

the weed market is critically shaped by the fact that consumers have very leittle ifnformation and very leittle wayto get it about the weed it buys.