CONVERSATIONS: Rodney Oien on the North Coast’s Toddler Services Infrastructure
LoCO Staff / Friday, April 28, 2023 @ 7:15 a.m. / People of Humboldt
Do you have a tiny baby somewhere around your house? Well, guess what — that thing is gonna be toddling soon! That’s going to cause huge problems! It’s going to be almost as much of an alteration to your habits as bringing the baby into your household in the first place!
The time to start preparing is now. And to that end, we welcome Rodney Oien of Northcoast Children’s Services to a Humboldt Conversation. Oien is here to tell us about all the help that his organization can provide to you in the very next crisis that you, the young parent, are just about to experience any day now. Believe me, you’re going to need it!
Video above, rough transcript below.
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JOHN KENNEDY O’CONNOR:
And welcome to another Humboldt Conversation. I’m really pleased to say I’m here today with Rodney Oien, who is the Executive Director of Northcoast Children’s Services. Rodney, nice to see you again and thank you for joining us for a Humboldt Conversation. Now, tell us what North Coast Services actually do.
RODNEY OIEN:
Yeah, so we provide Head Start, Early Head Start and state preschool programs as well as year-round child care programs for families of children 0-5 with income-based program. So Head Start and Early Head Start are federally funded. Primarily we provide preschool services, but we also work with families in acquiring community services, social services, health, dental, medical and mental health services to support them and their children at the beginning of their life.
O’CONNOR:
And what is the requirement to actually participate in this?
OIEN:
Yeah, so depending there’s we have both state and federal programs. So for the federal programs, it’s based primarily on the federal income guidelines.
O’CONNOR:
So families have to be below that…
OIEN:
We are allowed to have a certain percentage of families who are above that So we do have some over income slots and then the state programs have to qualify for our traditional preschool programs They have to meet the state income eligibility guidelines and for the full day, full year child care program. They have to also meet a work requirement or something. They have to have a need for care. So that could be their work. They’re going to school. They’re incapacitated. Those kinds of things
O’CONNOR:
Okay, and so how do people actually become part of the program? What do they need to do?
OIEN:
Yeah, so they start by applying and you can do that online at ncsheadstart.org. You can come into our offices. We’ve started now putting QR codes on our applications so that people can do that and apply online. It makes the process easier. Then there’s an eligibility determination. You know, and some things are categorically eligible. So if someone’s receiving CalFresh, they’re categorically eligible for the Head Start program now. There’s a little bit of an interview process that happens. So someone from our enrollment and recruitment team would connect with you and kind of, you know, make sure we have all the paperwork and documentation to show you’re eligible. And then you’d be put on our wait list. And you know, then we select families from that and we have some ranking priorities like homeless and foster youth first. There’s different criteria that we use to determine who gets into open slots.
O’CONNOR:
And so there is a limit on how many children you can have at any one time?
OIEN:
Yeah. So our center base, our three year old programs, our class sizes, those three to four year old, they’re 16 children in a classroom. And so sometimes we can go a little over that depending on the need and the community and the families that we’re working with. But yeah, we serve 344 children in Head Start, 198 in Early Head Start, and another 80 in state standalone programs.
O’CONNOR:
Now we are here today actually at the Arcata office, but there are actually multiple offices around.
OIEN:
Yeah, we go from the southern end of Humboldt County and Redway is our furthest south location. We go all the way up to Crescent City and Del Norte County as well as east out to Willow Creek and Orleans.
O’CONNOR:
And I think you’ve just opened a new facility in McKinleyville?
OIEN:
No, we’re working on a new facility in Eureka, but we do have a few facilities in McKinleyville, one on Hiller Road and one at the Morris Elementary School campus.
O’CONNOR:
And how can people, do you need any sort of volunteer help? Do you need fundraising, et cetera? How can people become involved with the service?
OIEN:
Yes, absolutely, we’re always looking for volunteers and fundraising. We’re working on some ways for people to be able to donate more easily. Currently, donations are by check, but we’re working on doing PayPal and credit cards so that people can do that more easily online.
O’CONNOR:
We were talking to your colleague, Christy, for a Humboldt Conversation. You’ve got the Rock Search coming up. But any other fundraising events coming up in the future?
OIEN:
Yeah, so every year in the fall, at the beginning of the first Saturday in October, we do our Pastels on the Plaza, where we come here to Arcata. You know, businesses sponsor a square and they either have an artist that they pair with it or that we have artists who are looking for businesses to pair with and we pair them up that way. It’s a great community event. You know, farmers markets going on.
O’CONNOR:
It’s wonderful, and in fact that’s when you and I first met last year and I came along to see it. I mean it was, because that was my first year here, and it was beautiful. But it seems such a shame that they all get one.
OIEN:
Yeah, I know it is, but we do you know we do keep we take pictures of them with a professional photographer.
O’CONNOR:
And so the businesses get that so that they can use it for advertising.
OIEN:
Yeah, it’s a great event we do.
O’CONNOR:
Well, we’ll talk to you further, closer to the time I hope, and we’ll certainly be there for that. Rodney, it’s great to see you again, thank you so much for joining us for a Humboldt Conversation.
OIEN:
Well, thank you, it’s a pleasure to be here. I appreciate it.
O’CONNOR:
And thank you for joining us for a Humboldt Conversation, and join us for the next one very soon.
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OBITUARY: Donell McCanless, 1926-2023
LoCO Staff / Friday, April 28, 2023 @ 6:56 a.m. / Obits
Donell McCanless passed away at age 96 on April 17, 2023, at her home
on the family dairy surrounded by her family. She is survived by her
three sons and their wives/partners, Jack McCanless (Nina), Kurt and
Judy McCanless and David and Debbie McCanless, seven grandchildren
Randy McCanless (Ashley), Tami McCanless (Theresa), Jason McCanless,
Beckie McCanless, Kenny McCanless, Lucas McCanless (Nichole), and
Katie Chisam (Matt), and eight great grandchildren Korbin McCanless,
Tatum McCanless (and her mother Dana McDonald), Tanner & Tinnley
Pidgeon, Grady & Miles Chisam, and Hunter & Wiley McCanless.
She is also survived by her very special friends: Jackie Amos, Lucille Scilacci, Mary Enos, and Karin King.
She is preceded in death by her husband Jack McCanless, parents Claude and Ruth Hunter, twin brothers Elias Don Hunter, and William Austin Hunter, brother Dean Hunter, grandson James McCanless and daughter-in-law Marian Qualls
Donell was born September 22, 1926. Her mother instilled in her the importance of education from a very young age. She spent her life pursuing her own education and building the knowledge of others. She attended Petrolia High School until her senior year where she attended and graduated from Mountain View High School while living with a cousin in Mountain View. She married Jack McCanless on July 15, 1946, in Oakland, CA while attending the University of California at Berkeley. She graduated from U.C. Berkeley in 1948 before she, Jack and their first son, Jack Jr. moved back to Ferndale. A few years later, once all her sons were in school, she continued her education at Humboldt State and got her teaching credential. Her first teaching job was at Price Creek Elementary (Grades 1 through 8). Donell was a substitute teacher at many local elementary schools and established her own preschool in her home. Lastly, she taught Special Education for many years at Ferndale Elementary, retiring after 40+ years teaching in 1994.
During WWII, she wrote to many service men she grew up with in Petrolia who were overseas, knitted scarves for the Red Cross and worked on a drydock as a welder in 1944. Donell was a life member of the Ladies’ Auxillary of the Veterans of Foreign Wars for over 75 years, a volunteer/historian for the Ferndale Museum for 45 years, and a member of the Ferndale Garden Club for 49 years, just recently making a trip to Petrolia (along with her good friends, Mary and Karin) to help start a new Garden Club. But, this amazing lady was perhaps most well known in Ferndale for her talents in spinning wool and her many knitted creations, from hats, sweaters and slippers to stuffed kittens and chickens, items most adored by her own great grandchildren. One of her proudest projects was the spinning of llama wool from an entire pack of llamas. Donell came by the art of spinning naturally, at a young age, and was taught by her grandmother, Lucy Hunter. Donell never met her great grandmother, but she learned that she had spun wool from a spinning wheel to make yarn many years before. Being the lifelong student that she was, she enrolled in a class to learn how to do just that. She was a much loved and proud member of the Humboldt Handweavers and Spinners Guild. She was one of the founding members of the well known and loved “The Folks” Craft Fair, where she met customers from all over the world, many who later became friends. This craft fair has continued for over 50 years.
Donell was a regular participant and blue ribbon winner for her baking, gardening and knitted creations at the Humboldt County Fair, and on one or two occasions won the prize for most blue ribbons overall. One year, she and her mother both entered apple pies, and when Donell came out the winner she joked that her mother likely wasn’t too pleased about it. She was also quite the historian, she loved the Ferndale Museum, and took pride in her many contributions of stories and historical artifacts.
Donell loved having her family close by, and was proud of the growth and success of her family members. She enjoyed supporting the many sporting events which her grandchildren and great grandchildren played, including soccer, basketball, football, baseball, softball and rodeo. When asked what she was most proud of, Donell mentioned her own graduation from U.C. Berkeley as well as seeing several of her grandchildren graduate from college, and one graduate from the California Highway Patrol Academy.
Donell was always curious. She delighted in meeting new people and learning their stories. She had many penpals around the world over the years, and loved to share stories of the people she met and corresponded with. Donell was always game for adventure, and took so much joy from trips she got to take with her sons, their families, and her grandchildren.
Donell was the cornerstone and matriarch of her family, and a pillar of the Ferndale community. She will be remembered as a fiercely independent woman, who lived a story of her own willful creation. To quote her dear friend Buck Miner, “If all the world could be like Donell, well it sure would be a wonderful spot to enjoy.”
A heartfelt thank you goes out to Beckie (granddaughter) and Mary Enos for their special TLC they provided to our Mom, Grandma, Great Grandma and friend, especially in her final days. We will remember this always. This grand lady was so loved and will be remembered by too many to count. Donell left her mark on this world, and gave each of us many stories to share and countless memories to treasure. Hers was a storybook life, with a storybook ending. She lived it her way.
Donell will be laid to rest at a private family burial service at the Ferndale Cemetery. There will be a celebration to honor her remarkable life on May 13, 2023 from 1 to 4 p.m. at The Ferndale Community Center. In lieu of flowers, memorial donations may be made to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Ferndale Museum or to your favorite charity.
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The obituary above was submitted on behalf of Donell McCanless‘ loved ones. The Lost Coast Outpost runs obituaries of Humboldt County residents at no charge. See guidelines here. Email news@lostcoastoutpost.com.
OBITUARY: Arthur Ramsey, 1947-2023
LoCO Staff / Friday, April 28, 2023 @ 6:56 a.m. / Obits
Art Ramsey —
beloved husband, proud father, and super-proud grandpa (Papa Art) —
passed away April 17, 2023 of complications of diabetes.
Art was born February 13, 1947 to Arthur and Alice Ramsey growing up in Blue Lake. He attended Blue Lake Elementary School and then Arcata High School. After Graduation, he enlisted in the U.S. Navy. Although his tour of duty was during the Vietnam Conflict era, Art was lucky enough to have been stationed in Hawaii for his entire four-year tour on the Admiral’s Gig.
After which, happy to be home for a short while, Art traveled to Alaska for about a year where he worked in a logging camp. Winter set in, logging-stopped, Art returned home. With influence and help from his father. He was hired as a logger for Simpson Timber Co. in Korbel where he worked for 30 years. Semi-retired, Art was able to work for the Blue Lake Casino for about five years.
As a member of the Blue Lake Rancheria, Art served as a councilmember for 30 years. He loved camping, hunting, fishing, gambling at various casinos, watching his grandsons participate in sports, and reading a good book.
His wife of 48 years, Lynette (Costa), his son Zac Ramsey, daughter-in-law Rachel, and grandchildren Lukas, Easton, and little Gracie (Gracelynn) mourn his loss but are relieved that his pain and distress is over. He will be missed every day.
Art is also survived by his sisters, Dona Mueller in Hawaii, Arla Ramsey in Blue Lake and brother David Ramsey in McKinleyville as well as numerous nieces and nephews.
Art is preceded in death by his parents, Arthur and Alice Ramsey as well as sister June Ramsey. His beautiful young nieces Kindred Lewis, Savannah Kindred and Kira Norton.
A celebration of Art’s life is planned for June 3, 2023 at Blue Lake Casino’s Sapphire Palace, 12 p.m.-4 p.m.
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The obituary above was submitted on behalf of Art Ramsey’s loved ones. The Lost Coast Outpost runs obituaries of Humboldt County residents at no charge. See guidelines here. Email news@lostcoastoutpost.com.
OBITUARY: Wendell Lee Bott III, 1951-2023
LoCO Staff / Friday, April 28, 2023 @ 6:56 a.m. / Obits
Wendell Lee Bott III, born on April 29, 1951 to Catherine Arlene Waldron and Wendell A. Bott in
Enterprise, Oregon, passed away peacefully of COPD just shy of his 72 birthday on
Saturday, April 22, 2023, in his home, surrounded by his family, in Fortuna.
Wendell served his country in the Army during the Vietnam War. He had many occupations in his lifetime but is most remembered for his many years working as a lumber and mill worker, most recently Palco Lumber Company, CM Rentals and Bott Family Lawn Care. Wendell was a family man; a loving father and grandfather, he deeply loved and cared for all of his children and grandchildren.
Wendell enjoyed cars and was very knowledgeable and mechanical. Wendell will be remembered for his sense of humor and his strength. Wendell will be remembered for his affection and his “love taps.” Taking care of things and people was Wendell’s gift to the world. He will be loved and missed by all of his family and friends. Wendell gave many memories to each of us that made us feel special.
He was preceded in death by his mother and father, his brother Jay Baker, and one bonus daughter, Jessica D’Vorak.
Wendell was survived by his sister, Terri Hagen, his wife Angela Jean Bott, his oldest daughter Jackie Lynn Carrillo, his daughter Deedee Arlene Bott, his son Wendell Lee Bott lV, his stepson Gary Thurston, his stepdaughter Christi Warren, his twin daughters Kimberly Zachary and Tiffany Garcia, his bonus daughter Samantha Perez, his son Eduardo Hernandez, his daughter Angel Warren, his daughter Treesa D’Nae Bott, his adopted daughter Geraldine Dawn Bott-Thurston, and his youngest son MichaelCharles Bott-Thurston who was also adopted. He was also survived by nine grandchildren: Trisha Burris, Kayla Hansen, Wendell Bott V, Antonio Hernandez, Kimberlynn Carrillo, Juno Garcia, Ezra Zachary, Sawyer Garcia, and Evelynn Zachary. Wendell had one great-grandchild, Addison Burris.
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The obituary above was submitted on behalf of Wendell Bott III’s loved ones. The Lost Coast Outpost runs obituaries of Humboldt County residents at no charge. See guidelines here. Email news@lostcoastoutpost.com.
HUMBOLDT TODAY with John Kennedy O’Connor | April 27, 2023
LoCO Staff / Thursday, April 27, 2023 @ 5 p.m. / Humboldt Today
HUMBOLDT TODAY: The Humboldt Navigational Center, a hub for homeless services planned for Eureka, continues to move toward realization; Old Town Eureka now boasts some new traffic-controlling infrastructure; plus, a whale is dead. Those stories and more in today’s online newscast with John Kennedy O’Connor.
FURTHER READING:
- [PHOTOS, VIDEO] The Carcass of Juvenile Gray Whale Washed Ashore and Is Now Rotting on the North Spit
- The Humboldt Navigational Center Will Begin Providing Services to Humboldt’s Homeless in the Next Two Years; County Staff Says, ‘I Wish It Was Tomorrow’
HUMBOLDT TODAY can be viewed on LoCO’s homepage each night starting at 6 p.m.
Want to LISTEN to HUMBOLDT TODAY? Subscribe to the podcast version here.
[PHOTOS, VIDEO] The Carcass of Juvenile Gray Whale Washed Ashore and Is Now Rotting on the North Spit
Ryan Burns / Thursday, April 27, 2023 @ 3:52 p.m. / Nature
Photo by Allison Lui (CPH MMSP), NMFS Permit # 18786-05.
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A gray whale carcass was found earlier this week on the beach at Bunkers, a popular surf spot in the Samoa Dunes Recreation Area.
Researchers from Cal Poly Humboldt Marine Mammal Stranding Program responded to the scene Tuesday to collect samples, and according to Director Dawn Goley, this particular Eschrichtius robustus was a male juvenile measuring 27 feet long.
“It was emaciated but showed no additional signs consistent with a ship strike or fatal killer whale attack,” Goley said in an email to the Outpost.
Yes, orcas, aka killer whales, are known to attack gray whales. In fact, just last week, a 28-foot gray whale carcass — with fresh orca tooth marks in its flesh — was found stranded near Point St. George in Del Norte County. Days earlier, passengers on a charter boat watched and filmed as a pod of orcas attacked gray whales near Castle Rock National Wildlife Refuge. (Click on over to our sister site, Wild Rivers Outpost, for video of that encounter.)
Gray whales on the West Coast have had a rough few years. Since the start of 2019 they’ve experienced an elevated number of deaths and strandings, a trend that NOAA Fisheries has designated an Unusual Mortality Event. Between January 1, 2019 and February 8 of this year, 613 stranded gray whales were found between Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, and the Chukchi Sea in northern Alaska, according to Humboldt Baykeeper.
In the past three years, no less than 10 gray whale carcasses have been found between South Humboldt Bay and the Oregon border, according to Baykeeper Executive Director Jennifer Kalt.
Independent scientists coordinated by NOAA Fisheries have yet to determine the cause of this Unusual Mortality Event. They’re using data and samples to study a possible causal link between the deaths and recent changes in the ocean and ecosystem.
In the spring, gray whales swim north on their annual migration from breeding grounds in Mexico to summer feeding grounds off the coast of Alaska, and Goley said that, even before the current Unusual Mortality Event, it’s not unusual for strandings to occur this time of year in northern California. Nor is the emaciated state of their carcasses necessarily reason for concern.
Gray whales fast during their spring migration, “and some simply don’t have the stored resources necessary to return to their summer feeding grounds,” Goley said. She and her fellow researchers performed a necropsy on the whale stranded at Bunkers, sampling the tissues to help determine the cause of death.
Video of the rotting, post-necropsy carcass can be viewed below.
If you should happen upon a stranded marine mammal, you can report it via Cal Poly Humboldt’s Marine Mammal Stranding Program hotline, 707-826-3650, or email them at marinemammals@humboldt.edu.
Photos and video by Ryan Burns.
The Humboldt Navigational Center Will Begin Providing Services to Humboldt’s Homeless in the Next Two Years; County Staff Says, ‘I Wish It Was Tomorrow’
Isabella Vanderheiden / Thursday, April 27, 2023 @ 3:42 p.m. / Homelessness
An aerial rendering of the proposed Humboldt Navigation Center. | Screenshot
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PREVIOUSLY:
- ’It Can’t Come Soon Enough’: Humboldt Supervisors Voice Support For New ‘One-Stop Shop’ Center for Homeless Residents
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The City of Eureka invited community members to a town hall discussion on Tuesday evening to share a progress report on the Humboldt Navigational Center – a resource center for local folks experiencing homelessness.
The facility will be built on the vacant lot across the street from St. Vincent de Paul’s Dining Facility at the corner of West Third and Commercial Streets in Eureka. It will serve as a one-stop shop for the local homeless community, offering access to shelter, affordable housing options, public health benefits, job training and mental health support, all located under one roof.
“County and city staff have been meeting for well over 10 years [to look] for ways to assist our folks that are unhoused, and having a place [for them] to be during the day was always noted as a thing that was really needed,” Connie Beck, said director of the county Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) said during Tuesday’s meeting.
The Humboldt Navigation Center is modeled after Friendship Park at Loaves & Fishes, a day center for adults experiencing homelessness in Sacramento. Finding a place for homeless individuals to go during the day has been an ongoing issue for the City of Eureka and the local business community, said City Manager Miles Slattery. “[This is] something that’s been a long time coming, and I know this community has been looking for something like this,” he said.
During the day, the navigational center will provide a safe place for people to stay with access to storage lockers, a pet kennel, showers, restrooms, community classrooms, a computer lab, laundry assistance and a clothing closet. Social workers, mental health clinicians and substance use disorder (SUD) counselors would be available on-site as well. And at night, it will provide overnight shelter for local residents experiencing homelessness, including 11 individual rooms for individuals and/or couples.
First floor | Screenshot
Second floor | Screenshot
There will be 24/7 security at the facility and staff will be trained in de-escalation techniques. Staff will work closely with the Eureka Police Department’s Community Safety Engagement Team (CSET), which already works closely with local homeless residents.
Hannah Ozanian, a homeless services consultant and former program director of Friendship Park, has been working with county and city staff to bring the project to life.
“The objective [is] to develop a central location for our local community … to really work together on these local challenges [surrounding] homelessness,” Ozanian explained. “[For] any community that is working in homelessness, the staff and volunteers are typically working so hard to get what they need to get done [that] they’re often burnt out and worn out. What we’re trying to do is not replace anything, but to try to support all these agencies by creating a space to come together.”
It’s important to bear in mind that every individual experiencing homelessness has a unique story, Ozanian said. And along with that, there are many reasons why some folks choose not to seek help.
“We want to create a welcoming, warm space where we can invite folks in, they can use our services, and as we develop trust over time [we will] be able to have those folks take the next step and seek housing,” she continued. “Of course, there will be some folks that will be apt and ready to go right away, but I’m speaking to those harder cases where [we] really need to work on trust in order to take the next step in services.”
Ozanian added that they’re looking for local organizations to be a part of the navigation center. “Not only do we need help but it’s necessary for working on these difficult, challenging and complex issues of homelessness,” she said. “It’s going to take all of us and all of these organizations to come together.”
During the public comment portion of the town hall, Nancy Olsen, CEO of the Eureka Chamber of Commerce, asked about the anticipated timeline for the project. Beck noted that the city and the county are still working with the property owner to negotiate the terms of the lease agreement but estimated that the facility will be fully built out in the next two years. “I wish it was tomorrow,” she said.
“All of the permits are in place, the building permits in place, the design review has been done, all of the planning and zoning permitting is completed – basically now it’s just contractual work that needs to be done,” Slattery added. “That’s the only thing that’s really stopping more construction right now.”
When asked about funding for the project, Beck said the county had received a chunk of change through the state’s Homeless, Housing Assistance and Prevention (HHAP) grant program and the Department of Housing and Urban Development’s Continuum of Care program.
“That’s the funding that’s used just to get this program started,” Beck said. “We also just applied for a grant that would fund the services portion for the next three or four years.”
Olsen also asked how the local business community can get involved once the facility is up and running.
“We hope to have many different opportunities for businesses to come down and volunteer or just tour the facility so they can figure out what where they can fit within the overall project,” she said. “If there’s an artist that would like to come down to do a mural, or a group of nurses that would like to come and do some sort of foot clinic and give pedicures, or if there are just neighbors that can lend us different skills that they have – those are all things we need.”
Ozanian also underscored the importance of building positive relationships with business owners in Old Town. “For instance … if there’s an individual that needs help and is at a neighbor’s doorstep, they could easily call us and we could come and remedy what we could within our capabilities,” she said.
St. Vincent de Paul board member and volunteer coordinator Bob Santilli said he was somewhat concerned with the issue of “overlapping assistance to the community” and the possibility of having to compete for funding.
“But I’m happy that Hannah [Ozanian] and whoever else has listened and I don’t see things that we’re doing already being reapplied under that concept. I’m happy for that,” he said. “We want to have a kind of overlapping collaboration of sorts in that region to hopefully have a larger impact on what we’re trying to address.”
Eureka City Councilmember Renee Contreras de Loach asked if they could add more shelter space to accommodate more people in the facility or include a covered area outdoors.
“There is a space for another building on the [East] side of the current location that we’re that we’re looking at [but] we’re going to start with this one,” Beck said. “This will be phase one, and then see where we go from here. We could definitely use more office space down there by that location, and if we were to do that, then we would want more housing above that space. Anywhere we can get more housing we want more housing.”
Contreras de Loach also asked about the number of animal kennels. Ozanian said there would be eight to ten kennels on-site but said the plan “could easily be modified.”
As a formerly unhoused person, Vernon Price asked how he could participate to “pay it forward.”
“I’ve been housed now five years and this is something that has really been a desire in my heart is a navigation [center], and I know that has been in the hearts of some people that have been on the street for quite some time,” he said. “My question here is about volunteerism [for] people with lived experience: How can I pay it forward?”
Beck recognized Price and encouraged him and others to attend future public meetings and continue to provide feedback to staff.
Eureka Mayor Kim Bergel expressed her gratitude to county and city staff for their work on the project and encouraged community members to “grab an oar” and help out where they are able.
“This is a community issue and it needs a community solution,” she said. “That could mean dropping off your old clothes at the facility, dropping off a bag of toothbrushes; it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to engage with people, although that would be amazing as well.”

